A Conversation with Andrew Remington Rillera about Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA)
Andrew Rillera
90.59
5 September 2025
14 November 2025
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Join Marissa and Andrew Remington Rillera in the church library for today's bonus episode discussing Andrew's book Lamb of the Free: Recovering the Varied Sacrificial Understandings of Jesus's Death (https://a.co/d/i5tL4C8) , his insight into the sacrificial system of the Torah, and the implications this has for our theories about atonement and family life.
Things mentioned in the episode:
-Andrew's article on Ephesians 2 (https://www.academia.edu/40433720/_Tertium_Genus_or_Dyadic_Unity_Investigating_Sociopolitical_Salvation_in_Ephesians_)
-Jesus and the Law of Moses: The Gospels and the Restoration of Israel within First-Century Judaism, by: Paul T. Sloan (https://a.co/d/a2qpsa6)
-Anselm's Cur Deus Homo (https://ccel.org/ccel/anselm/basic_works/basic_works.vi.html)
-Hannah Bowman's (https://hannahnpbowman.com/theological-writing/) article From Substitution to Solidarity: Towards an Abolitionist Atonement Theology (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1462317X.2022.2038937)
-Peter Leithart's critique of Andrew's book (https://peterleithart.substack.com/p/lamb-of-the-free)
-Andrew's response to Peter's critique (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1954986784884133944.html)
Find Andrew on X/Twitter (https://x.com/AndrewRillera) and Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/andrewrillera.bsky.social)
Episode Chapter Markers:
3:21—Andrew's bio/introduction
6:23—Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA) defined
22:20—Is PSA "the Gospel"?
47:28—Significance of the "washing" imagery in the sacrificial system
57:13—Where did we go wrong with our understanding of this imagery?
1:01:22—What are the implications for parenting?
1:18:43—Discussion of recent social media conversation on PSA & critiques of Andrew's book
Connect with Marissa & Kelsey across social media
Marissa: Website (https://www.marissaburt.com/) , Substack (https://substack.com/@mburtwrites) , Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/mburtwrites/) , Threads (https://www.threads.net/@mburtwrites) , Twitter (https://x.com/MBurtwrites) , TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@mburtwrites) , BlueSky (https://bsky.app/profile/mburtwrites.bsky.social) , YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@inthewaytheyshouldgo) , Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/joann.burt.313/)
Kelsey: Website (https://www.kkramermcginnis.com/) , Substack (https://substack.com/@kelseykramermcginnis) , Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/kelseykmcginnis/) , Threads (https://www.threads.net/@kelseykmcginnis) , Twitter (https://x.com/kkramermcginnis) , TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@kelseykmcg?lang=en) , BlueSky (https://bsky.app/profile/kkramermcginnis.bsky.social) , Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/kelsey.kramermcginnis)
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