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Long (45-70 mins)
Ethics
Evangelical

Hopeful Realism: An interview with Dr. Jesse Covington by Dr. Steve Porter

Theologian

Jesse Covington


Duration

62.59


Uploaded to YouTube

10 October 2024

Added to Database

21 November 2025


YouTube description

In 2008, Dallas Willard asked, "Why after 25–30 years of Evangelical political involvement, at a high level of visibility and influence, there is little or no improvement in the ethical quality of American political discourse and practice?"
https://conversatio.org/the-failure-of-evangelical-political-involvement/

Some fifteen years later, Dallas's question has seemingly snowballed. Many would say that in recent years, the ethical bottom has dropped out of discourse and practice in American politics (see, for instance, the discussion of Michael Wear's book, The Spirit of Our Politics).

https://conversatio.org/the-spirit-of-our-politics/

In this video, we are featuring an interview with Dr. Jesse Covington (https://www.westmont.edu/people/jesse-covington-phd) by Dr. Steve Porter (https://www.westmont.edu/about/institutes-and-centers/martin-institute/staff). Dr. Covington is a Martin Institute Senior Fellow, Professor of Political Science, and Director of the Augustinian Scholars Program at Westmont College. Dr. Porter is the Senior Research Fellow and Executive Director of the Martin Institute for Christianity and Culture at Westmont.

The interview begins with a discussion of the Augustinian Scholars Program at Westmont. Then it moves to questions regarding our current political situation, how politics can malform us, and an approach to politics Dr. Covington and his colleagues refer to as "hopeful realism." Hopeful realism, or "aspirational imperfectionism," encourages Christians to lovingly work for as much real good as possible in our social arrangements--including government--while realizing there are limits to what can be accomplished in a fallen world. The interview ends with a connection to Willard's understanding of perfection in Christian spiritual formation and how transformation in Christ connects to societal transformation.

For further exploration on this topic, consider Dr. Covington's multi-authored book titled Hopeful Realism which is due out in early 2025.
https://www.ivpress.com/hopeful-realism

If you are interested in more information on the Augustinian Scholars Program at Westmont, see here: Augustinian Scholars Program.
https://www.westmont.edu/augustinian-scholars-program

For more great content like this, please visit https://conversatio.org