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Medium (20-45 mins)
New Testament
AnglicanEvangelical

Does Paul Contradict Himself? A Conversation with Rev. Dr. Michael F. Bird (Women and Words)

Theologian

Tom (NT) Wright


Duration

36.12


Uploaded to YouTube

16 January 2026

Added to Database

24 January 2026


YouTube description

In this podcast, Rev. Dr. Michael F. Bird explores the crucial sociological context that often influences human interpretation of Scripture along with the complexities involved in reading passages from Paul who is considered both the ally of both egalitarians and complementarians. Spending significant time on Paul’s reference to Phoebe (Romans 16:1–2) as deacon in the church of Cenchrea. Too often we allow Paul’s passages that appear to silence women for all time (1 Timothy 2:11–15, Ephesians 5:22&FF, and 1 Corinthians 14:34–36 ) overlooking the many women speaking, teaching and leading in the OT and NT, especially beside Paul and throughout Church history.

Mike considers the impact of sin on God’s original design for women and men in Gen 1:26–31. Because of sin, the mutuality enjoyed by women and men deteriorates into the male rule noted in Gen 3:16.

Supremely, Mike notes the victories of Christ in conquering sin on Calvary, along with the many passages in the New Testament that speak of the ontological mutuality and equal service of women and men, such as Proverbs 31, Galatians 3:28 but also a passage heavily cited by the Abolitionists that reads: “From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands,” Acts 17:26.

Mike masterfully integrates biblical theology, church history, theology, and culture as he explores key topics impacting women, marriage, and service. His sense of humor, use of metaphor and his experiences working in the church and academy brings keen insights into the egalitarian conversation today. We hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Mike Bird, a dear friend of CBE.

Guest Bio: The Rev. Dr. Michael F. Bird:

Mike is Deputy Principal and Lecturer in New Testament at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He is an Anglican priest and is married with four children. He is the author of several books including the awarding winning The Gospel of the Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesus and with N.T. Wright, The New Testament in its World.

Books published by Michael F. Bird:

Whispers of Revolution: Jesus and the Coming King.

Romans: Greek-English Interlinear Paraphrase Study Notes

Books published by N.T. Wright and Michael F. Bird:

The New Testament in Its World: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of First Christians.

Jesus and the Powers: Christian Political Witness in an Age of Totalitarian Terro and Dysfunctional Democracies.

The New Testament in Its World Workbook: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of the First Christians.

The New Testament You Never Knew Bible Study Guide: Exploring the Context, Purpose, and Meaning of the Story of God.

The New Testament in Its World: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of the First Christians.

The Gospel of the Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesus, by N.T. Wright and Michael F. Bird.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters Podcast
00:30 Meet Michael Bird: From Soldier to Scholar
01:17 Michael Bird's Professional Journey
03:41 Biblical Perspectives on Gender and Leadership
10:20 Old Testament Foundations for Gender Equality
12:48 Women in the New Testament
27:48 Challenges and Changes in Evangelical Scholarship
31:11 Supporting Women in Ministry and Academia
35:00 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Related Resources:
The Invasion of the Homoians: Trinity and Gender, Again!: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/invasion-homoians-trinity-and-gender-again/

Fretting Over Phoebe: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/fretting-over-phoebe/